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Posts: 7697
Sep 27 12 6:48 PM
Garry,
The term "equipment failure" doesn't appear in the rule book. I don't think it's a good idea to develop "extra-rule book" terms and then rules for these terms. Let's just apply rules in the book.
Can you quote a rule from the book that allows someone who has had a malfunction to not reload and/or complete a COF? The only exception surrounding "malfunctions" I can see are:
1) re-shoots for the classifier if the shooter has a malfunction2) re-shoots for stage equipment malfunctions
Neither of these apply here.
Koski
Posts: 175
Sep 27 12 10:13 PM
Posts: 3032
Sep 27 12 11:19 PM
Sep 27 12 11:28 PM
Steve Koski wrote:Garry, The term "equipment failure" doesn't appear in the rule book. I don't think it's a good idea to develop "extra-rule book" terms and then rules for these terms. Let's just apply rules in the book. Can you quote a rule from the book that allows someone who has had a malfunction to not reload and/or complete a COF? The only exception surrounding "malfunctions" I can see are: 1) re-shoots for the classifier if the shooter has a malfunction2) re-shoots for stage equipment malfunctions Neither of these apply here. Koski
Posts: 2265
Sep 28 12 12:04 AM
Shootaglock wrote:Where is the line, and what is the line?
5.7.4In the event that a handgun malfunction cannot be corrected by thecompetitor within 2 minutes, he must point the handgun safely downrangeand advise the Range Officer, who will terminate the course offire (excluding any unattempted component strings in a StandardExercise) in the normal manner. The course of fire (excluding any unattemptedcomponent strings in a Standard Exercise) will be scored asshot including all applicable misses and penalties
Posts: 453
Sep 28 12 9:05 AM
Ok, what constitutes a "broken gun"? Not being a lawyer but using common sense and logic..... a broken gun is any gun that does not function as designed (ie: other shooter terms normally used for a "broken gun"-malfunction, equipment failure, etc). How is a gun designed (as utilized in our sport)....it should go bang with each trigger pull and function to place the next round in a position for the next trigger pull.
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Sep 28 12 9:13 AM
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Sep 28 12 9:40 AM
Sep 28 12 9:54 AM
Sep 28 12 10:10 AM
Sep 28 12 10:16 AM
GOF wrote: This could be a part (slide stop, extractor, ejector) breaking, or a squib load lodging a bullet in the barrel, or an extra long round that engages the rifling but won't let the gun go fully into battery to fire and cannot be removed by cycling the slide, or any one of the numerous screws on a S&W revolver that loosens or falls out and prevents proper SAFE gun function... or anything associated with the 1911 (the potential broken gun scenarios with the 1911 are too numerous to list... but include all of the above and then some).
Sep 28 12 10:22 AM
Sep 28 12 10:25 AM
GOF wrote: Gary,In the case of the revolver shooter with the dud round. That shooter fired 11 of the 12 rounds the COF required. He had a malfunction/dud round. He had additional ammo on his person (2 speedloaders if he was carrying the SSR/ESR required ammo load). He had the opportunity to reload the gun and finish the COF as required. He chose not to do do. That is a specific FTDR in the current Rule Book.The semi-auto shooter with a magazine full of dud rounds would be, IMO, a different matter. If he attempted to fire the required number of rounds but was prevented from doing so by faulty ammunition... and if he had no other servicable ammunition with him... then there is certainly no FTDR, because he made the attempt. As to whether to issue a PE for failing to fire the minimum specified rounds, or to use DNF/briken gun scoring... I would say that's a judgement call. Personally... if the shooter made the attempt I wouldn't issue a PE and I would go with DNF scoring.IMHO, FTDR requires 'intent' on the shooter's part (which is why I view it as a poor rule, because intent is not always easy to discern). In the case of the revolver shooter who chose not to make the reload, and made no attempt at a reload... I would issue a FTDR as outlined in the Rule Book. It is clear in "failing to reload to fire the last round because the score would be better" (or something like that... but it's clear to me) OMD
Sep 28 12 10:33 AM
Sep 28 12 10:46 AM
Sep 28 12 11:26 AM
Sep 28 12 12:39 PM
Sac Law Man wrote: Garry.. I have not... Mainly becasue I have not had it happen at a sanctioned match, and if it happened at a local match, its usually done by a novice shooter who really doesnt know better and the penalty is pretty severe for a local match.. just being honest..John
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Sep 29 12 7:33 PM
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Sep 29 12 8:14 PM
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