ForgotPassword?
Sign Up
Search this Topic:
Forum Jump
Posts: 1981
Sep 18 11 4:16 PM
Tags : None
Sep 18 11 5:20 PM
Hello everyone,
I was the match director in Taft on Saturday. The incident is still under review and a detailed report will be completed shortly. There are several facts that are appropriate to release at this time.
1. The stage consisted of a single drop turn target that had to be activated via step plate activator.
2. As the shooter drew his S&W M&P .40 from a Serpa holster, he discharged a single round through his upper right thigh. The round traveled diagonally through his thigh about 16 inches and exited the rear of his thigh.
3. The weapon was taken from the shooter and made safe by his squads safety officer.
4. The emergency plan in place was activated. This included designating a person to call 911, two persons to physically direct first responders and CPR / First Aid certified staff to render first aid. Taft Sportsman's Club IDPA has a small trauma kit. Fortunately a shooter carries an extensive trauma kit in his bag and was able to provide scissors, pressure bandages and gauze to a shooter who is a registered nurse in Bakersfield.
5. Due to the efficiency of the emergency plan, Hall Ambulance, Kern County Fire and Taft Police were all on scene in approximately five minutes. He was transported to Kern Medical Center where he was treated and released in about four hours, without any stitches. His weapon was turned over to a friend of the shooter after Taft Police finished their investigation
6. A shooters meeting was conducted after the shooter was transported. All concerns from the remaining shooters were discussed. All of the shooters wanted to continue the match, which it was without incident.
7. I spoke with the shooter Saturday evening who was resting at home. He was thankful to the Taft IDPA for the way it was handled. He takes 100% responsibility for what happened. He did express he would not be using his Serpa holster again and that it did contribute to the negligent discharge. Ultimately it was his finger being on the trigger that caused the incident, it was accelerated by the holster design.
I would request that out of respect for the shooter his name and occupation be kept as confidential as possible. He was an experienced shooter and that should suffice as a description.
If you have any questions regarding this incident please contact me directly. Or contact CA IDPA Area coordinator Monte Gould.
Thank you for your concerns,
Joe Little.
Posts: 582
Sep 18 11 6:37 PM
Posts: 1107
Sep 18 11 10:10 PM
Posts: 4
Sep 18 11 10:14 PM
Posts: 2
Sep 19 11 1:01 AM
Posts: 70
Sep 19 11 12:40 PM
Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself. Richard M Nixon"Ain't it great to be alive and to be in Tennessee"Charlie Daniels“Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.” Jeff CooperNon illigitamus carborundum
Posts: 703
Sep 19 11 1:19 PM
Bubbiesdad wrote:If the Serpa is used properly, your triggier finger will fall naturallt on the frame of the gun, just under the slide.
Sep 19 11 1:37 PM
Mark Mayo wrote: Bubbiesdad wrote: If the Serpa is used properly, your trigger finger will fall naturally on the frame of the gun, just under the slide."The apparent problems arrive when the holsters are canted on the belt. I'm not saying that it's bad system but at what point do the negatives outweigh the positives. I can't recall seeing or hearing of any issues with Safariland retention holsters inducing AD's or ND's." The SERPA has a channel for your finger to slide in, which is suppose to keep your finger in it's proper place. Perhaps the channel walls could be made a little larger. I still don't see blaming a holster, any more than I would blame a Glock, for a ND.I do not have a Serpa myself, however at the range today, I asked the senior range officer who is also one of the instructors there, and he got a Serpa off the shelf and showed me the operation of the holster, and also, how getting your finger out of the channel can cause a problem.As far as retention holsters go, I use Bianchis with the Finger Lok, which is released by the middle finger.
Bubbiesdad wrote: If the Serpa is used properly, your trigger finger will fall naturally on the frame of the gun, just under the slide.
Posts: 2123
Sep 19 11 5:41 PM
Posts: 1314
Sep 19 11 6:52 PM
Posts: 74
Sep 19 11 11:21 PM
I am glad that the experienced shooter is ok. I do disagree with others that their is no blame on the holster. This holster invites major pressure to be placed onto the button when the gun is pulled up against the retention. When a shooter uses a product incorrectly doesn't remove all responsibility from the holster design. Good holster design will remove any room for error on the part of the user. The Taft club reportedly had an emergency plan at the ready. Does any other club wish to share their plan so that other clubs could benefit.
Posts: 42
Sep 20 11 12:35 AM
Sep 20 11 1:44 AM
Steve,The shooter took responsibility as he should of. One of the reasons I call the Serpa flawed is due to the fact that other holsters do not encourage a shooters trigger finger to be placed in a position to easily access the trigger area during a draw. By requiring the shooters finger next to the bang switch is the single reason I am calling it flawed. It is not optional. Other retention holsters avoid this type of finger placement. My opinion of a good holster is one that doesnt tell me where to put my big fat finger. Most all other holsters don't tell the shooter what to do with their finger. Finger placement on a Serpa holster is flawed, in my very (probably solo) opinion. I am also conserned with Serpa owners that claim "it just takes practice". Is an IDPA match the best place for a New Shooter to practice this skill. We have both watched that scary new shooter draw his gun, why add one more obsticle. I would think it would behoove a club to limit any retention device that requires such a level of training that some of the most experienced shooters are having trouble mastering.
Sep 20 11 4:43 AM
bombmaster wrote: Steve,The shooter took responsibility as he should of. One of the reasons I call the Serpa flawed is due to the fact that other holsters do not encourage a shooters trigger finger to be placed in a position to easily access the trigger area during a draw. By requiring the shooters finger next to the bang switch is the single reason I am calling it flawed. It is not optional. Other retention holsters avoid this type of finger placement. My opinion of a good holster is one that doesnt tell me where to put my big fat finger. Most all other holsters don't tell the shooter what to do with their finger. Finger placement on a Serpa holster is flawed, in my very (probably solo) opinion. I am also conserned with Serpa owners that claim "it just takes practice". Is an IDPA match the best place for a New Shooter to practice this skill. We have both watched that scary new shooter draw his gun, why add one more obsticle. I would think it would behoove a club to limit any retention device that requires such a level of training that some of the most experienced shooters are having trouble mastering.
Posts: 36
Sep 20 11 6:20 PM
Posts: 1059
Sep 20 11 7:12 PM
Todd
Posts: 232
Sep 20 11 8:07 PM
bombmaster wrote:I am also conserned with Serpa owners that claim "it just takes practice". Is an IDPA match the best place for a New Shooter to practice this skill. We have both watched that scary new shooter draw his gun, why add one more obsticle. I would think it would behoove a club to limit any retention device that requires such a level of training that some of the most experienced shooters are having trouble mastering.
I am also conserned with Serpa owners that claim "it just takes practice". Is an IDPA match the best place for a New Shooter to practice this skill. We have both watched that scary new shooter draw his gun, why add one more obsticle. I would think it would behoove a club to limit any retention device that requires such a level of training that some of the most experienced shooters are having trouble mastering.
Sep 20 11 8:16 PM
Sep 20 11 9:15 PM
Tarkeg wrote: Matt,You're absolutely correct. If the proper technique is used each and every time, the trigger finger lands alongside the frame above the triggerguard. I own a SERPA for my fullsize 1911's, so I've trained with it. I also believe that the shooter is always responsible for what they do with their trigger finger. Personally, I think the only thing my trigger finger should do is work the trigger. But I think the trouble with the SERPA lies in the fact that the design itself is requiring the shooter to use their trigger finger to release the pistol in the first place. Apparently some people will curl their finger to press the release with the tip of their finger, rather than lay it along the holster on the draw. Especially when they haven't trained with it a lot, and under some kind of stress (usually speed).So while I don't think the holster caused the ND's, I do believe they contributed to them by the nature of their design. A level 2 holster has a lot of appeal to some folks, for different reasons. But I think there are better designs out there that accomplish the retention by different means, none of which require the user to manipulate anything with their trigger finger. Safariland ALS or SLS (with which i'm sure you have experience) are great examples. Bianchi has a system that uses the middle finger. If you shoot glocks, the Blade-Tech/5.11 thumb drive are great.That's also not takng into account the other issue of the holster not releasing the pistol when dirt or debris is introduced to the locking system.JMHOYMMV and all that.Good job with the pictures, I haven't done that yet either.
Share This