What do our yearly dues pay for?

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RobMoore		#21	[-]
Posts: 341 (05/31/09 10:16:59) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	. If and when I have any comments or suggestions I would make them directly to IDPA HQ Sorry for taking that to mean just what it said.
SixShooterPerry		#22	[-]
Posts: 114 (05/31/09 18:50:46) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	John, I had to laugh when I read this thread. Ken will attack anyone who says anything bad about IDPA. I realize his passion for the game but he is a pit bull sometimes. Just try forgetting to sign your post with your real name! You can also add a few others here to that list also! Don't feel bad or offended. I too have the same questions. Where does all the money go? I realize that IDPA has expenses but there really is no support to the clubs, major matches and they don't have to answer to the membership. Does IDPA have a Junior shooter program like USPSA? NO! Juniors are the life blood of the shooting sports and not having a program in place to get them involved is just being cheap in my eyes. I just returned from the USPSA SC Sectional match and there were many juniors in attendance. And most of them were young girls. I love talking to the "kids" and watching them shoot and thinking "what if I would have started shooting at that age?". I love walking up to them and giving them a high five and saying great job. And the kids always smile and say thanks. I would like to see juniors shooting IDPA to get a free membership up to the age of 16. You can't tell me IDPA can't afford that because once these kids are hooked they are a member for life. Does IDPA send any type of materials to clubs having "State Championships"? No, not even hats or T-Shirts! Why doesn't IDPA offer a Lifetime membership like the NRA, USPSA, ICORE and many other shooting sports. Because they can keep on collecting money from you if you choose to continue your membership. I gladly paid the NRA a $1000 for a life membership. I gladly paid $500 to USPSA for a Life membership. Why? First off I wanted to show my commitment to them. Secondly I just don't like to be bothered with when is this or that expiring and when do I need to send a check to be current....a busy life simplified a little bit. Could they make more money from be by not having the "Life" option, absolutely. How much money does it take to "develop the rules" for an organazation this old....please! I like IDPA, USPSA and ICORE and shoot them all, almost every weekend one or the other. I do find that the IDPA rule book is more open to SO interpretation just by reading some of the post on this forum. I have asked questions and when there is no clear cut answer some of the forum regulars go on the attack. I have seen the reload behind cover rules done differently at many local and state level matches. Cover calls will vary from SO to SO. Other sports may have a "thicker" rule book, but for good reason. The rules are clear and defined. You don't have to worry going 5 States away and having the rules interpreted a little different. I know everyone helping at a match is a volunteer and I do greatly appreciate everything people do to make IDPA the sport that it is. But the rule book could be a lot clearer in a few areas and not open to the current SO's own interpretation that day. Perry
CDP45		#23	[-]
Posts: 6 (05/31/09 20:20:42) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Perry. I feel you hit the nail on the head. No matter what organation you support, the Juniors are the future of our sport. We/them need to support the Juniors 100%. John. Grab your shorts and pull up. Send me your information and I'll pay your dues. Heck-If and when IDPA offers a lifetime membership I may pay that for you. It takes a heck of a person to question (on this forum) what many of us have always wondered. Hopefully the higher ups will start/continue to listen to the members concerns. This is in no means to bash anyone. So don't take it personally. Chuck
9MM Guy		#24	[-]
Posts: 38 (05/31/09 21:15:54) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chuck, I'll email my address so you can send me a check to pay my dues!!!!! Seriously, are we members or customers? John Oceanside Practical Pistol Club. Competitve shooting in Southern California. oceansidepistol.com
Scuba Simpleton		#25	[-]
Posts: 129 (05/31/09 22:43:36) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	9MM Guy wrote: Seriously, are we members or customers? The most accurate term would probably be "supporters." Members have rights and customers have expectations. Supporters just support. Bob
RobMoore		#26	[-]
Posts: 344 (06/01/09 05:41:29) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Since its a sport, would that make us Athletic Supporters?
9MM Guy		#27	[-]
Posts: 39 (06/01/09 08:21:33) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Scuba Simpleton wrote: 9MM Guy wrote: Seriously, are we members or customers? The most accurate term would probably be "supporters." Members have rights and customers have expectations. Supporters just support. Bob I think that is a better choice of words than I used inmy post. Thank you for the correction. John Oceanside Practical Pistol Club. Competitve shooting in Southern California. oceansidepistol.com
drichsgirl		#28	[-]
Posts: 2 (06/01/09 08:25:30) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hey guys, This is a pretty passionate debate, but I think we are missing the real point of it all. I am a female shooter who started shooting at a local club in December '08. I wasn't very good, but the veteran members of the club have spent a lot of time coaching me and helping me improve. Little by little, my fundamentals, times, and accuracy are improving. Isn't that what this sport is all about? It is extremely difficult to find a local range that will let me set up and run IDPA style COF. These matches are my only opportunity to put all of the pieces together (moving, cover, reloading, multiple threat engagement, etc. etc.) and I get helpful suggestions from incredibly talented shooters. What more could a girl ask for? That said, our annual dues are $40 ... I have no idea what IDPA actually pays, but I know from my professional experience that full color magazine production runs about $4.00 per copy, add another $1.00 for postage. I get the TJ 4 times each year, that's $20. That leaves about $600,000 dollars (with club dues). $600,000 to pay a staff of 5, put a roof over their head, maintain a website, etc. etc. I highly doubt anyone is getting rich off of this. If you truly want to make IDPA more desirable, then ask yourself what YOU can do to bring new members to the sport (more members = more dues = more opportunities = more recognition) ... Could you help organize the postal matches? Could you put together an Introduction to IDPA course for new shooters? Could you create tools and resources to help new clubs get their matches up and running? Do you have great COF ideas to share? Do you have a knack for designing and building props that could be replicated by other clubs? Are you good at redesigning forms? Web design? What is your passion? If your time is limited, your ideas are still valuable. How can we, as a membership-base, take IDPA to the next level? Cynthia
Bones		#29	[-]
Posts: 553 (06/01/09 08:54:57) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Cynthia, Stop throwing water on the fire. Well said and welcome. Craig
freeidaho		#30	[-]
Posts: 3082 (06/01/09 09:52:59) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Cynthia, Thank you! In one informed post the Tac Journal went from costing nothing to possibly costing $400,000 a year. Now I have that song "I think I love you" buzzing around in my head. I suspect that buildings, insurance, state and federal taxes, workmans' comp, equipment, travel, payroll, medical benefits, rule books, classification cards, membership cards, advertising, and the Nationals is also not free. Thanks again, Ken Reed
cnelson181		#31	[-]
Posts: 16 (06/01/09 11:01:51) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Very awesome post Cynthia. I have a question on the TJ though, if you have perfesional expierence in this area?? What % of the revenue of all the advertising in the TJ offsets the cost of publication of the TJ?? Thanks. Ken, That is the kind of info that would be helpful in understanding what are "due's" go to. But, could you explain how the National's cost IDPA anything?? With the fee of $165 x 250 shooters = approx $41,000 and having an all volunteer force working and running it, with also many, many sponsors of the event. I guess I just don't understand. I have assisted in running a few sancontiond matches and the absolute worst we ever did was to barely break even. ?? Just trying to understand. Thanks. Craig N... There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
freeidaho		#32	[-]
Posts: 3083 (06/01/09 11:26:30) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Craig, IDPA hasn't opened up their books to me either. Everyone, But I think it kinda one sided in any of this discussion to do the math on the income side and assume that the costs are negligible. It would be different if y'all had put some time into finding out reasonable costs on the other side of the equation. I bet the hotel cost for rooms alone are $10,000, plus the banquet, plus the food and beverages for several nights. What do you suppose 75-100 plaques cost, and some of them are 5 times the size I have seen for state matches. These are but two of hundreds of costs. But I guess I should sit quietly for the remainder of this witch hunt. Ken Reed Last Edited By: freeidaho 06/01/09 11:55:17. Edited 1 times.
cnelson181		#33	[-]
Posts: 17 (06/01/09 12:31:26) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ken, Thank you. +1 But I disagree w/ you that this is a "Witch Hunt." This is a lively discussion, trying to find answers and I hope we can find some. As much as I do for any organization (including IDPA) w/ paying a amount of $$ to belong, I want to know what that organization (IDPA) is doing for ME?? Craig N... There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
drichsgirl		#34	[-]
Posts: 3 (06/01/09 12:46:28) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Craig, For a small publication like TJ (estimating a circulation of 20,000), you are doing well if your advertising covers all of your pre-production expenses (not included in the printing costs I gave before). That would include the graphic design and layout, pre-production proofing, editing, and press set up, etc. etc. TJ is about 40 pages with approx 15 pages of "real estate" devoted to advertising. I have no idea what IDPA's advertising rates are but, all things considered, I would guess they are probably just breaking even on pre-production. Publications like TJ are rarely a money-making venture, it's just one of those things you do to try to keep your membership engaged and informed! Thank you to everyone for the warm welcome! Cynthia
Jim Watson		#35	[-]
Posts: 560 (06/01/09 13:26:47) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I am willing to pay the price(s) to shoot IDPA but am curious as to where the money goes. I have not seen the fincancial statement from a sanctioned match because I am not a member of a club large enough to put one on. But I used to shoot a lot of ATA Trap, cashiered several state championships, and was club treasurer for a couple of years. I can say with confidence that 100+ people breaking clay pigeons for three days is a big moneymaker for the host club. Those shoots paid for capital improvements and on our land note. Club officers and volunteer staff sure did not make anything off of it, not even the reduced entry fee common to IDPA.
cnelson181		#36	[-]
Posts: 18 (06/01/09 16:05:08) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks Cynthia. +1 Just trying to understand. And welcome to the mad house. LOL Craig N... There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
CDP45		#37	[-]
Posts: 7 (06/01/09 17:10:43) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	John--Got your information. You should recive a new sticker (Thats a joke) in the mail as well a a new classification card. Folks. John has brought up a great question. Before I renew my next 3 year membership, I want to see what I am getting for my buck. I strongly feel any Junior member should recive a free membership till he/she is 18 years old. Every club should demand this from H.Q. I have been a member of IDPA for to long to get the attitude of "Take it or leave it." If I got a dollar for every member I signed up, I could renew my 3 year membership forever. John--Keep up the good questions. Hopefully we will get usefull answers. Chuck
RichieK		#38	[-]
Posts: 1 (06/01/09 20:30:20) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	John and Chuck bring up great points. I send in my membership check and get a TJ every once in a while. That's pretty much it. The local matches and even the sanctioned matches I've been to don't seem to have any connection to the IDPA HQ. If IDPA isn't really doing much, can't we put a lot of that money into our local club to buy props, etc.? Now, IDPA might be doing all sorts of stuff with that money, but we don't know what it is. If I had some sort of indication that IDPA was spending the money to address its weaknesses, I'd probably be satisfied. But until that darn rulebook gets changed, I'm going to get driven more and more into USPSA. I now shoot roughly 3 times more USPSA matches than IDPA ones now and the sad thing is most of our local club leadership is doing the same thing for the same reasons. What happens when they say screw it, I wanna keep my $40 and buy a ticket for Thunder from Down Under. For roughly the same price for membership, USPSA gets me a really good magazine, a good website with good classification info, a set of rules which is frequently updated, and a new card sent out each time my classification changes. What are we getting from IDPA? Now Chuck, since you're feeling generous right now, can you buy me a membership too? If not, how bout some .40 brass? RichieK A63365
Scuba Simpleton		#39	[-]
Posts: 131 (06/01/09 23:10:29) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Craig N-Nationals and other MAJOR major matches, pay for lodging for out of town SOs. They also provide lunch and match swag for the SOs. SOs also shoot for free. Consequently, getting an SO slot for a MAJOR major requires strong experience and strong recommendations. That is as it should be. Too many "major" matches treat SOs poorly, do not pay for hotel rooms, and generally abuse the volunteer help. The notion that an SO would have to pay to shoot a match is astounding to me. As far as the National event is concerned, I believe the local organizers cover the costs without a subsidy from HQ. I believe HQ is entirely seperate from the National event, other than providing an office and logistical support. Someone please correct me. Bob
cnelson181		#40	[-]
Posts: 24 (06/02/09 08:03:08) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks again Bob. I have SO'd a lot of sanctioned matches and I know the lunches were covered, but did not know that they provided the hotel rm. for the staff also. You see, maybe if there was more info out there, there wouldn't be such confusion?? Thanks again for the info Bob. Maybe one day I'll be able to go to the Nationals?? But until that little apple tree out back starts flowering $100 bills, it might be a little while off. Craig N... There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

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What do our yearly dues pay for?