Why don't I see certain guns at matches

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robertbank.czechpistols82792	Rob I think HQ has already ruled they can't be	#101	[-]
Posts: 285 (07/06/09 14:11:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Rob I think HQ ahs already ruled they can't be disconnected. You might want to check on that. S&W I believe refers to it as a safety device so I am afraid your suggestion won't work. Take Care Bob Your Signature ... http://www.idpacanada.com
RobMoore		#102	[-]
Posts: 379 (07/06/09 15:24:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It wasn't a real suggestion.
Boats		#103	[-]
Posts: 46 (07/07/09 20:34:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Simple way to deal with the magazine disconnect is take an extra mag. Put bright red tape on the follower. Then show it to the RSO before the stage offering to let him carry it or put the marked mag in your back pocket. Use it to drop the hammer only. See the red and it's empty no doubt. That's how I deal with my BHP few times a year I shoot a match with it. It's a great pistol but not a good match gun. I suspect that's why you don't see them often. Boats
robertbank.czechpistols82792		#104	[-]
Posts: 286 (07/07/09 23:01:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jim why do you thnk it is grossly unsafe when once the slide is down it is not possible for a round to enter the chamber. Sorry to be thick headed here but how it crosses the threshold of being unsafe escapes me. The practice is legal and done every match I have been to in both IDPA and IPSC, although in the latters case the mag disconnect can be removed legally. Take Care Bob Your Signature ... http://www.idpacanada.com
Jim Watson		#105	[-]
Posts: 572 (07/08/09 09:16:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I consider the practice unsafe because it would not take but a moment's confusion of the shooter and distraction of the SO to leave the gun loaded again. It would be similar to the "reverse clearing" of a standard pistol I saw last month. We take precautions against other low probability incidents, I will guard against this one. The only shooter I know who regularly campaigns a gun with magazine disconnector (S&W, not Browning) carries one of those blue dummy magazines to drop the hammer over.
RobMoore		#106	[-]
Posts: 382 (07/08/09 13:48:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Even if the shooter accidentally left the loaded magazine in the gun, that in and of itself is not a dangerous situation. He would have to also #1 Draw the gun while not under the direction of an SO on a course of fire #2 Rack the slide, chambering a round #3 Point the weapon in an unsafe direction #4 Press the trigger All 4 of those things would have to take place after the initial mistake of leaving the magazine in the gun for a negligent discharge resulting in an unsafe condition to happen. It would take one heck of an unsafe shooter to create that "perfect storm".
Jim Watson		#107	[-]
Posts: 573 (07/08/09 14:26:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK. I will not argue the point further, just assert my control over my range. If you shoot a magazine disconnector gun on my range, you WILL maintain an empty or dummy magazine for the purpose of getting the hammer down.
Boats		#108	[-]
Posts: 47 (07/10/09 08:50:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jim I agree empty or dummy mag required to drop the hammer on a mag disconnect pistol is best and safest way to go. Even away from matches when clearing my BHP CCarry pistol I will not insert a loaded mag to drop the hammer. Might be belt and suspenders but that's the idea, leaves fewer chances for AD's Boats
17 shot		#109	[-]
Posts: 1 (08/20/09 22:54:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	First of all, the original question. I think the price point issue is the largest determining factor in gun choice to play the game. If one can pay 400-550 dollars for a gun that will run for thousands of rounds with nothing more than routine maintenance, that is what one will do. Not everyone practices "home gunsmithing" or can afford to have a gunsmith maintain their gun(s). The higher end the gun, the tighter the tolerances and the more attention is needed. I shoot CZs, a SR9 ,and a GP100. With a 13 pound hammer spring (in my 9mm CZ) and some polishing of the internals the gun is very smooth in DA and around 2.75 lbs. in SA mode. With practice I have become so accustomed to the DA first pull that shooting it "cocked and locked" for ESP seems strange to me. It does take some practice, but hey, there is nothing like winning a COF against a bunch of Glocks, M&Ps and "jam"11s! I say shoot the GP100 for a while. Put a Wilson Combat or Wolf spring kit it it. After shooting it, a DA/SA gun will feel like cheating and you will learn tremendous trigger control. You can't "slap" one of those! Mag disconnects...my take....magazine disconnects are NOT safeties. The SR9 has the same 3 safeties present that a Glock has. As a matter of fact my SR has a Glock Ghost connector in it as well as a Glock 13 lb recoil spring. 8,000 rounds and only a broken striker. IF I dry fire the gun with out a magazine the striker unit will be broken. Putting a magazine BACK in the gun to show clear, IMO, IS a disaster waiting to happen. If a SO is not familiar with an SR9 he/she will not realize that the gun can not go off with out a magazine in the gun. So basically you can have a competitor walk off of the line WITH a live round in the chamber. Does this make sense? It is tough enough for the SOs to call cover the same as the SO on the stage beside his/hers, so how can we expect them to know every gun type and their functions? I am NOT faulting the SOs. It IS a tough job. We are asking alot of them on this subject. I say to "PLAY THE GAME" it would be safer to say "TAKE THE DISCONNECTS OUT". I mean seriously, isn't the whole "unload, show clear, (if clear), hammer down " rule designed to keep a competitor from walking off of the line with a loaded gun? Why handicap the procedure by having a device that makes this impossible to 100% verify a cleared firearm? Just looked at my manual (which is available on line @ Ruger. It does not refer to the "Magazine disconnect" as a safety. Who determined that it was a "safety"? The rulebook specifically says "safety devices" may not be diconnected and makes no mention of magazine diconnects in the verbage. Last Edited By: 17 shot 08/22/09 09:40:53. Edited 1 times.
Jay1958		#110	[-]
Posts: 11 (08/22/09 14:09:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I totally agree that a magazine disconnect is not a "safety"! It seems to me the issue is liability for IDPA HQ. They are afraid that if they say "Okay, you can remove mag disconnects to allow you to actually make your pistol SAFER for use in IDPA matches and to prevent the possibility of damage to your firing pin", that something will somehow happen that results in them getting sued. That is the bottom line, IMO. 17 shot wrote: Just looked at my manual (which is available on line @ Ruger. It does not refer to the "Magazine disconnect" as a safety. Who determined that it was a "safety"? The rulebook specifically says "safety devices" may not be diconnected and makes no mention of magazine disconnects in the verbage.
17 shot		#111	[-]
Posts: 2 (08/22/09 17:51:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jay, I agree with your thoughts and I will follow the rules by not shooting the gun in IDPA competition. IDPA is what it is...a game. Rules are rules even if born out of short sightedness. The amusing thing is that I see more safety issues with firearm functioning brought about by modifications that are permitted by the rules.
Jay1958		#112	[-]
Posts: 12 (08/23/09 23:18:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It's a shame, too, because I think the SR9 has a lot of potential in SSP. The other option is to put the mag disconnect back in and drop the striker on an empty mag or a dummy mag...
Jim Watson		#113	[-]
Posts: 599 (08/24/09 07:45:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If you want to shoot the gun, that is the way to go. One of our guys has a S&W with magazine disconnector and he carries one of those blue dummy magazines to drop the hammer over. If they don't make one for the SR9, the best thing would be to gut a spare magazine so it could not accumulate rounds and paint the floorplate blue, the accepted color code for inert practice weapons.
Bill Nesbitt		#114	[-]
Posts: 500 (08/24/09 08:28:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jim Watson wrote: the best thing would be to gut a spare magazine so it could not accumulate rounds and paint the floorplate blue, the accepted color code for inert practice weapons. Jim, thanks. I never thought of that. That's why I always read your posts. Always very knowledgeable. Bill
Jose Rossy		#115	[-]
Posts: 121 (08/24/09 11:01:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jim Watson wrote: the best thing would be to gut a spare magazine so it could not accumulate rounds ...... Seems like a good idea so long as the follower is not needed in the mag to release the disconnect. If the body of the mag is what does it, then that would work well. Worth a try. Jose Rossy A33749
17 shot		#116	[-]
Posts: 3 (08/24/09 11:45:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Good ideas, I will however choose not to shoot the gun in IDPA. To much hassle and chance for an AD/ND by using a magazine that CAN function. Safety first. I still come back to one of my earlier statements, who determined that the "magazine disconnect" in a Ruger SR9 was a "safety". Ruger certainly does not refer to it as such in any of there literature for the gun (that I can find, and maybe I AM missing it). I know Smith and Wesson refers to there design (totally different from anything in the Ruger) as a "Magazine Safety". As my gun was built by Sturm Ruger and not Smith and Wesson, I would say they are not related. Hmm...what would IDPA headquarters say I wonder? Alas, I will stay within the rules and shoot one of my fine Czech built guns instead of my fine American built gun. After all, it is still fun.
Jim Watson		#117	[-]
Posts: 600 (08/24/09 13:17:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Seems like a good idea so long as the follower is not needed in the mag to release the disconnect. If the follower trips the disconnect, then put a pin through it. If you are smart enough to shoot a gun, you should be smart enough to inert a magazine so you can follow the rules.
Steve Koski		#118	[-]
Posts: 933 (08/24/09 14:10:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Paint a magazine orange or blue. Insert painted mag. Slide down hammer down. Colored mag goes back in "special" pocket. What's so hard? What am I missing? - Koski
Jose Rossy		#119	[-]
Posts: 122 (08/24/09 16:42:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jim Watson wrote: Seems like a good idea so long as the follower is not needed in the mag to release the disconnect. If the follower trips the disconnect, then put a pin through it. If you are smart enough to shoot a gun, you should be smart enough to inert a magazine so you can follow the rules. Maybe I am smart enough to tell the difference between an empty magazine and one with ammo in it. How's that for simple? And by the by, the rules do not require an "inert" magazine to drop the hammer on a pistol with a mag disconnect. Just an empty one. Jose Rossy A33749
Jim Watson		#120	[-]
Posts: 601 (08/24/09 17:14:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Not required in the rules. Not even required by me for shooters I SO. But it would be required FOR me to feel comfortable with my own equipment. Kind of a straw man. I don't know a gun that connects the magazine disconnector and magazine follower anyhow. The link to the disconnect is in a fixed location, the follower moves up with every shot, down with every reload.

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Why don't I see certain guns at matches

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