Why don't I see certain guns at matches

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sraiford	Why don't I see certain guns at matches	Lead	[-]
Posts: 99 (03/09/09 12:10:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Now first off let me say that if I had the money I would have every gun made in every caliber. I shoot matches in LA, AL, TN, TX, GA, and hopefully this year Oklahoma, and I never seen certain guns. Can anyone tell me why? Taurus 24/7, revolvers Ruger SR9, GP100 Kahr 45 (I'd imagine you could find a mag with 1 extra round) I know this is not a complete list but why aren't these guns in the mainstream. I looked at the Nationals list, not a single Ruger or Taurus at the entire match. Shane Raiford A27104
CChristian		#1	[-]
Posts: 142 (03/09/09 12:30:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I can't speak for all the guns you mentioned. But, the Ruger GP-100 does make some appearances. It's not as popular as the S&W guns... maybe because it doesn't get the publicity... and there don't seem to be a lot of people who "tune" them up. But, they are a solid revolver. My shooting partner, Massad Ayoob, has won a couple of IDPA State Championships with one, and I have done well with them when I am shooting SSR. Chris Christian
S391		#2	[-]
Posts: 25 (03/09/09 12:49:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	For the record, I've shot an SR9 at a couple of IDPA matches and it worked out just fine........
Steve Koski		#3	[-]
Posts: 573 (03/09/09 13:06:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We have one or two GP100 shooters. No taurus guns of any sort (that I can recall). In fact, I think we've had more Hi-Point pistols than Taurus over the years. Almost no Beretta shooters, ZERO browning high power shooters. These are the two big question marks in my book. Koski
CChristian		#4	[-]
Posts: 143 (03/09/09 13:16:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Koski, Interesting observation on the Browning Hi-Power. I also see very few of them. In its day it was a significant gun, but I wonder if price and technology have passed it by? As for the Berettas, we have a couple of shooters that run them, but the DA/SA trigger system seems to hold them back somewhat. I too am wondering why these guns are not more prominent in IDPA. Is "plastic" replacing "steel" in SSP? Chris Christian
Steve Koski		#5	[-]
Posts: 574 (03/09/09 14:28:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chris, You would think that the Beretta being the standard US military sidearm and all would at least be good for a 10% showing. This doesn't seem to be the case at all. I'd bet it's about 1 shooter per 500 with a Beretta. The Beretta 92 can be shot extremely well. There was some kid that had videos of him shooting USPSA matches with one and he was absolutely amazing. I guess this could be done with any gun, but a nice heavy steel gun shooting a 9mm seems like a slick way to go, if'n you can tame the first shot. Koski
CChristian		#6	[-]
Posts: 144 (03/09/09 15:08:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Koski, I agree. You'd think that the standard US Military gun would get more play. But, like you, I don't see very many of them. Don't know why there aren't more Hi-Powers, unless it's price & technology. Chris Christian
blsextonjr		#7	[-]
Posts: 11 (03/09/09 16:07:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Beretta- lack of choice in the sight system is the biggest thing holding me back. It's a great platform but there just isn't room to dovetail in a set of rear BoMar style sights, and changing the front to F.O. is a bit tougher. Browning High Power- it is my understanding that you need to disconnect the mag safety in order to get the best possible trigger pull, and that is a no-go in IDPA. Again, lack of sight options for those that like adjustables on the rear, and a bit tougher to find F.O. fronts, etc. I think the big thing is that it just boils down, on most platforms, the access to, or lack thereof - parts to customize your piece. There are multiple tuners selling parts for a G17, but you'll have to go to more length to find a spring kit for reducing the trigger pull on a Kahr- Of course it is arrow, not Indian, and as aCZ75 guy I think 'taming the first shot DA' is pure training. BUT let's face it, there is a PERCEPTION that you have to have a light first pull on each shot- thus favoring super-duper trigger kits on Glocks, XDs, MPs, etc. Barrett
Steve Koski		#8	[-]
Posts: 575 (03/09/09 16:27:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Aha, the sight difficulty issue is certainly going to give someone pause who is serious about competing. Never thought of that. The best shooter at our club runs a full size Sig 9mm. The guy is absolutely amazing. I've never seen him throw away the first shot either. Koski
Glshooter		#9	[-]
Posts: 93 (03/09/09 16:35:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Although the guy who posted two above me does pretty well with his DA/SA CZ, I think that most shooters find that DA/SA guns are just plain harder to shoot. I am not a fan of Beretta's, Sig's etc. because of the trigger action. CZ's seem to be the best of the bunch. I have seen guys show up with DA/SA guns and be very displeased with their performance when trying to shoot for speed. They do require more time and practice to become proficient with. Most switch to Glocks, M&P's and other guns with one consistent trigger pull. I have local LEO buddies who's department switched to a Sig 229 and now they are having a real hard time with the DA/SA trigger. They pick up a Glock and have no problem. One problem with the Browning is the mag safety. I know some people who don't like having to re-insert a mag to show clear and drop the hammer. Dave
Ontrack		#10	[-]
Posts: 61 (03/09/09 18:58:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Glshooter wrote: One problem with the Browning is the mag safety. I know some people who don't like having to re-insert a mag to show clear and drop the hammer. Same thing with the SR9, and some SO's don't care much for the process, either. Steve
BILLG		#11	[-]
Posts: 13 (03/10/09 12:25:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Rule Book states hammer down.No where does it say insert empty mag and pull trigger.Or to pull the trigger.So under the rules the hammer could be lowered several ways.For the sake of disscusion if the SO says slide down, hammer down and the gun goes boom who gets the DQ the So or the shooter.After all the SO has given the command so he has given the shooter the OK that the gun is clear. Actually this probably should be moved.Mods please move to the correct area.thanks Bill
Jim Watson		#12	[-]
Posts: 503 (03/10/09 16:04:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Actually, Bill, the rule book says, page 79, under Range Commands, "Hammer Down: Command given to shooter to dry fire into the berm to show a clear weapon." I figure dry firing is accomplished by pulling the trigger of an empty gun. If he has to insert an empty magazine to do so, that is a required manipulation. Do you have another definition or procedure in mind?
BILLG		#13	[-]
Posts: 14 (03/10/09 16:45:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jim you are right missed that.But who gets the blame if the gun goes boom?
Jose Rossy		#14	[-]
Posts: 50 (03/10/09 17:38:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	BILLG wrote: Jim you are right missed that.But who gets the blame if the gun goes boom? Is this a serious question???????? Of course the shooter is responsible if he inserts a loaded magazine in the pistol to drop the hammer. Who else would it be? Jose Rossy A33749
CChristian		#15	[-]
Posts: 146 (03/10/09 18:16:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Just a thought... but things are getting slightly weird here. If the slide is forward on an empty chamber... and the SO witnesees & confirms that.... then it really doesn't make much difference whether you stick a loaded or empty mag into the gun to drop the hammer ... on a trigger pull... on a gun that has a magzine safety, as long as it is removed after the hammer is dropped. If the slide is forward on an empty chamber there won't be a "boom", unless the shooter/gun handler cycles the slide to chamber a round. An empty chamber will not fire, regardless of how many bullets an inserted magazine might.. or might not... contain. If there is a "boom"... I might humbly suggest that the SO did not properly inspect the slide back/empty chamber portion of the unload & show clear portion of the COF... and, one could also say the the shooter handling the gun was also a bonehead. If both shooter & SO have a bonehead moment... I guess it could happen.... but if it does... I would have to lay equal blame on the SO who was supposed to confirm an empty chamber before the slide was sent forward and the hammer dropped. That is one of the SOs duties, and why they have the "Red Hat". Chris Christian
Harleytech		#16	[-]
Posts: 8 (03/10/09 18:41:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I compete with a Browning High Power. It is the first pistol I ever bought (2/23/82). It shoots better than I ever could. I've had the wide combat trigger in it, but removed it to be legal . I recently shot it in the Florida State match and came in fourth in ESP/MM. I use a wooden dowel to activate the mag safety at "Hammer Down" ( thank you Lance Biddle!) and at the start of the string, I explain the technique to the SO prior to "Load and Make Ready". Most SO's have no problem with the dowel trick, but you can tell that a High Power is not what most SO's are use to these days by the comments you get. High Power's may not be the newest, sexy plastic pistol on the market, but they deserve another look because they are lean mean hole-drilling machines! Mike Williams
CChristian		#17	[-]
Posts: 147 (03/10/09 18:56:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Mike, Nothing wrong with a Browning Hi-Power. I carried one for the last five months of my tour in Vietnam. If I remember correcctly ( and it was a long time ago) you don't even need the dowel. The mag safety lever is on the forward portion of the inner mag well... just about at or slightly below the mid point on the trigger guard... and reachable with the pointer finger on normal sized hands. Stick a finger up there, depress the lever, and you'll impress the hell out of most SOs when you drop the hammer on a gun with a magzine safety. Chris Christian
Harleytech		#18	[-]
Posts: 9 (03/10/09 19:44:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Chris, you are correct. I've done the finger trick also when I forget my wooden dowel. Mike Williams
Jim Watson		#19	[-]
Posts: 504 (03/10/09 21:13:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have seen people put a loaded magazine back in a Browning or S&W to drop the hammer. I consider this grossly unsafe and would not allow it on my range. Have a spare empty to show clear with or shoot something else. I guess a stick or a long finger would be ok, but really, now, why don't you come prepared? One of those blue solid practice magazines would be ideal. I know a guy who campaigns a 5906 and keeps one handy. If, as SO, I fail to see that you did not clear the chamber and dump a round on the "hammer down", I will feel bad... but you will be through for the day.
Harleytech		#20	[-]
Posts: 10 (03/10/09 22:01:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thought about a blue practice mag , but if you think sights are hard to get, wait till you try to locate one of those! I don't think they make one for HP's.The Dowel was recommended to me by our Area Coordinator. Works great and noboby thinks you got a round in it when it goes in the magwell. Tried the empty mag, but the wooden dowel is fool proof and a lot less stressful on SO's!!! Mike Williams

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