This happened at a my local club match on a stage I designed and was SO'ing. Here is the part of the stage I have a question about. It required for a door
to be opened and 4 targets to be engaged from the doorway while using cover. From Left to right, the were T1, T2 (with a non-threat), T3 and T4. I was running
a shooter who used proper cover and sliced the pie, but did not engage T2 (after he was clear, he stated that he thought it was just a non-threat and did not
see the target behind it). I scored T2 as 10 points down and a failure to neutralize. Question is, should I have given him a procedural for shooting the
targets out of order as well?
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How would you score it?
| Author | Comment | ||
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 prreed10 |
How would you score it? |
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Posts: 3 (03/03/09 16:54:00) |
Ryan Reed
A25482 |
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Howard B |
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Posts: 11 (03/03/09 17:12:29) |
While others will likely disagree, I think 10 down and an FTN is sufficient. Howard |
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Steve J |
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Posts: 149 (03/03/09 17:48:37) |
Sufficient maybe, but not completely correct. 10 pd, FTN, and a procedural for exposing yourself to a target without engaging it. I had the misfortune to do
this at a sanctioned match and was rewarded with all three penalties. The procedural would not apply only if the target not engaged was the last target;
thereby never exposing yourself to it, or if you shot at it and both shots missed.
Steve J
A17557 |
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prreed10 |
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Posts: 4 (03/03/09 17:53:36) |
Thanks for the replies. I was going to add a procedural, but this was a club match and I really hate to run anyone off with 10+ penalty seconds on one target.
If it would have been a sanctioned match, I would have added a procedural to be fair to all the other competitors.
Ryan Reed
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Steve J |
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Posts: 150 (03/03/09 18:11:17) |
Ryan, that's a question I often ask myself. Are we being fair by being lax on the rules because it's just a local match, or because it's a new
shooter, or because the guy's a duffer and won't win anyway? I don't think we are. Everyone is competing against someone even at the bottom of the
pack.
Steve J
A17557 |
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prreed10 |
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Posts: 5 (03/03/09 18:14:18) |
Very good point, Steve.
Ryan Reed
A25482 |
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 245 (03/03/09 19:38:14) |
-10, FTN, +3 for cover (at least that is what I got at blackwater)
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Radome |
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Posts: 114 (03/03/09 20:27:56) |
We always have a fairly large percentage of new shooters at local matches and we usually dont pile on.
But, we do tell them it is their birthday and let them blow out the candles. Often, most of us are happy to see them move along safely without too much of a time penalty( in terms of getting through the squads). That said, moving out to engauge targets and passing one would theoritcally be fatal and deserving of a PE. I am,,, RICK
Last Edited By: Radome
03/03/09 20:30:20.
Edited 1 times.
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 Steve Koski |
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Posts: 551 (03/04/09 20:51:41) |
So every time someone doesn't slice the pie, they get two procedurals? One for not slicing the pie, and one for not using cover? This seems like overkill,
and I haven't seen double penalties handed out for failing to slice the pie.
It also seems possible to not slice the pie, but still be behind cover (as defined) for all of the targets in the array, especially if the targets are close together and distant. Koski |
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magdrop |
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Posts: 33 (03/05/09 00:09:29) |
-10, FTN, 3 sec for not slicing the pie, and what about 3 sec procedural for not completing the minimum rounds per the COF? However I think there was only one
"infraction" and per the rule book- I'd only give one procedural.
Dave
Last Edited By: magdrop
03/05/09 00:12:09.
Edited 1 times.
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Steve J |
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Posts: 153 (03/05/09 06:29:20) |
10 down, 1 FTN, 1 PE
Steve - one procedural. I don't see where anyone suggested two. Dave - right. There's no procedural for skipping a target during the COF unless you expose yourself to it without shooting it (e.g. moving past an opening without stopping to shoot.) The only time there would be a procedural for failing to fire the minimum number of rounds is if the shooter chooses not to reload for his last shot because it would take longer than the hit would help him. When you accidentally skip a complete target the -10, FTN, PE negates any attempt to game the stage.
Steve J
A17557
Last Edited By: Steve J
03/05/09 06:32:29.
Edited 1 times.
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Steve Koski |
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Posts: 553 (03/05/09 10:38:48) |
OK, so let's modify the COF slightly. The shooter accidentally skips the second to last target, but is still behind cover (as defined) for the skipped
target and the final target. Does a PE get assessed? If yes, for what?
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magdrop |
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Posts: 34 (03/05/09 12:19:26) |
Steve K- the way I see it, and the rules aren't 100% clear on this from my reading it. The required shooting order from behind cover is slicing the pie. If
the shooter "skips" a target, they didn't slice the pie correctly, hence a 3 sec procedural for not using appropriate order. This to me is the
same as if the shooter engaged T1, T2, T4 (skipping T3) then "rengaging" T3.
Dave |
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Steve J |
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Posts: 154 (03/05/09 13:37:37) |
Steve Koski wrote:As in... slice the pie on T1-T3 from P1. Move to P2 and slice the pie on T4-T6, but the shooter brain fades and forgets that there are 3 targets at P2. He shoots just T1 and stops and doesn't react to an "IF you are done, unload and show clear". He never broke cover. He just didn't finish. I'd say you score the last two targets 10 down each with 2 FTNs and call it a day. He's not gaming because there's no way the time would justify 20 seconds in penalty time, so no procedural. He also didn't shoot anything out of order, nor did he expose himself to a skipped target, so no procedural there either.
Steve J
A17557 |
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