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 SemperFi |
Shooting through Ports - What are the rules |
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Posts: 6 (11/23/08 08:57:51) |
What are the IDPA rules about shooting through ports? Where are the rules written?
I've searched the 2005 rulebook numerous times and don't see it mentioned. Thanks, Steve |
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solaritx |
shooting through ports | ||
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Posts: 89 (11/23/08 09:39:37) |
The IDPA rule is simple, you must use cover as per IDPA rules
The IDPA rule interpretation is sometimes different depending on IDPA club or SO. Some feel that one can stand in the middle of the window and engage the threats in tactical order (near to far) AS LONG as one hundred percent of your lower torso is behind cover and no greater than fifty persent of your upper torso is behind cover Some feel that one must use cover, as described above, BUT INCLUDE that the shooter must slice the pie. Use of cover (window) is clearly outlined in the IDPA rulebook. The method that one must engage is not specifically defined and therefore SO or MD dependent. (I always ask before shooting the CoF, esp at a major match) |
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Radome |
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Posts: 92 (11/23/08 11:39:51) |
I have found the MD defines what the particular issues are with a stages at walk through.
Usually the idea the stage designer had when setting up needs to be added to this answer. I am,,, RICK |
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 134 (11/24/08 17:40:54) |
This is one of those grey areas where I'd rather ask during the walkthrough and have to do it other than the way I wanted, instead of doing it the way I
want and arguing the +3 afterwards, since alot of MDs/SOs tend to think every shooter should do it the way they pictured it in their head, not simply going by
the plain text of the rulebook.
Last Edited By: RobMoore
11/24/08 17:43:08.
Edited 1 times.
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gmancdp |
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Posts: 65 (11/25/08 13:30:10) |
funny you asked this question...when i first started in idpa, i asked why we didnt shoot thru ports,and the MD said "ports" are for ipsic
matches,idpa shooters shoot thru windows and not ports..other then a boat where do you see ports at everyday...also we used window curtains all the time,either
pulled them down[velcro attached] or slid them out...
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freeidaho |
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Posts: 2569 (11/25/08 17:22:16) |
GmanCDP,
I fundamentally agree. Same for a barrel with both ends cut out. Remnants of another sport. Probably expedient, but not IDPA. Ken Reed
+-+ E-Mail: freeidaho at yahoo dot com ...............................There is a $5 fine for whining. (Chris Ledoux "5 dollar
fine")
|--\ .................................................................................................You are what you do, everything else is just talk. |---| Personal web site to display ideas:................................Gaming is an admission that you can't win on a level playing field. /----\ <http://www.parmarng.org/freeidaho/default.html> |*----/\ |-------| My rifle, pistol, shotgun, and IDPA club: +------+ <http://www.parmarng.org> |
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Steve Koski |
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Posts: 288 (11/26/08 06:34:03) |
That gives me an idea. I'm gonna do the barrel thing, with a piece of cardboard affixed to one (or both) ends. Cut a smaller port/window in the cardboard
to make it interesting. Has anyone done this? Recommendations?
Steve Koski |
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 135 (11/26/08 06:58:31) |
What if the barrel is meant to simulate....say, a brick wall that has had a portion of it blown out (they tend to have odd shapes when this happens, not a
clear cut "window") like what happens in war? The I in IDPA does stand for international. Self-defense scenarios in a war-torn foreign city.
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Steve J |
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Posts: 47 (11/26/08 09:56:38) |
I think RobMoore and GmanCDP are both on the same general sheet of music. Very few clubs have the resources to build elaborate props. We all do a lot of
simulation. In the example of shooting through a barrel, it could also simulate a culvert. Whether or not such things are in keeping with the spirit of IDPA is
totally dependent on your COF. If you have a good scenario, and shooting through the barrel fits that scenario (e.g. blown out wall or culvert) then I think
it's absolutely fine.
Steve J
A17557 |
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freeidaho |
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Posts: 2570 (11/26/08 10:52:51) |
Rob and Steve,
You may be right. A culvert is an interesting situation, but for most culverts the shooter would have to be prone. The ones I was thinking about were just a barrel with no idea why one was supposed to shoot through it. I guess like most things, ther are more poor CsOF than great ones. Thanks! Ken Reed
+-+ E-Mail: freeidaho at yahoo dot com ...............................There is a $5 fine for whining. (Chris Ledoux "5 dollar
fine")
|--\ .................................................................................................You are what you do, everything else is just talk. |---| Personal web site to display ideas:................................Gaming is an admission that you can't win on a level playing field. /----\ <http://www.parmarng.org/freeidaho/default.html> |*----/\ |-------| My rifle, pistol, shotgun, and IDPA club: +------+ <http://www.parmarng.org> |
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gmancdp |
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Posts: 66 (11/26/08 11:50:49) |
well i 'll have to disagree to some extent,with that...a couple of states matches ago,i did a stage called "3 clowns in barrels".i'll email you a copy..short.. very very quick 9 rnd stage,that went very well...T1 was at 3yds,T2 was at 7yds,both heads exposedand both were at a different height, T3 could not be seen until you took a knee... for 2 yrs i did the "welcome to southern pipe company"where you shot thru several stacks of 6"sewer pipes that were 1ft in length...both of these were very very popular with the shooters...heard alot of awe sh@t%* to doggonit,while and after shooting it  G'reg...
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j ted murphy |
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Posts: 3387 (11/26/08 16:26:31) |
Question
Hi Robert, There have been some questions about shooting through ports. Some SO's believe tha the shooter must use the sides of the port not unlike vertical cover. The shooter slices the pie from either side and engaged the targets in tactical priority. Some SO's believe that the shooter can stand square in the port and engage the targets near to far. Their premise is that while 50% of the shooters "down zero" zone is not behind cover, 50% of the shooters body is. Some SO's do not stipulate any engagement order and simply permit the shooter to stand in the port any old way. Which if any of these techniques are permissible? Cordially, Ted Murphy Answer Hi Ted, In keeping with IDPA basis in defensive principles when engaging threats through "windows" the shooter should use the sides of the port like they would using vertical cover. The rule says more than 50% of the shooters upper body must be behind cover. It also states that 100% of the shooters legs and feet must be behind cover. Because IDPA is a defensive oriented sport, competitors, SO's, MD's and CoF designers should think of ports as "windows". Although windows come in several sizes most will not situated where more than 50% of the persons body will be covered. To cut a port high enough and small enough so that some one could stand in the window and blaze away is and attempt to circumvent the rules. IDPA does not currently dictate size and location of windows nor do we want to. Although the phrase "in real life" is way over used in most instances, it should be thought of here. CoF designers should think "window" not "shooting port". That is fine for USPSA and while it is a lot of fun to shoot, it's principles should not be applied to IDPA. I hope this helps to clarify this problem. Thank you, Robert Ray International Defensive Pistol Association
Cover Me, I'm going Slo-Mo!
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 136 (11/26/08 22:01:02) |
Sounds more like a personal opinion and less like an official edict.
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Jane |
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Posts: 1103 (11/26/08 22:25:20) |
RobMoore wrote:Not when he signs it like that.
Jane - Expert on nothing with opinions on everything...
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j ted murphy |
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Posts: 3390 (11/27/08 06:57:22) |
Rob,
that is an official clarification. Ted
Cover Me, I'm going Slo-Mo!
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 138 (11/27/08 08:26:27) |
I should have been more clear, sorry. What I meant was that the first sentence in the last paragraph lead me to believe that officially he wasn't banning
"ports" but personally he wished MDs would stop using them in favor of windows.
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freeidaho |
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Posts: 2577 (11/29/08 16:07:18) |
Here is an example of what I meant about not being appropriate for simulating self-defense shooting...... Ken Reed
+-+ E-Mail: freeidaho at yahoo dot com ...............................There is a $5 fine for whining. (Chris Ledoux "5 dollar
fine")
|--\ .................................................................................................You are what you do, everything else is just talk. |---| Personal web site to display ideas:................................Gaming is an admission that you can't win on a level playing field. /----\ <http://www.parmarng.org/freeidaho/default.html> |*----/\ |-------| My rifle, pistol, shotgun, and IDPA club: +------+ <http://www.parmarng.org> |
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 139 (11/29/08 17:17:39) |
Looks similar to this
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freeidaho |
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Posts: 2579 (11/29/08 17:50:43) |
Rob,
Agreed. Accept for the targets with odd shaped body armor everywhere except COM and head. Which doesn't pass the "it could happen" test. The two together make it not-IDPA for me. We already have a sport that uses this type of arrangement quite often, there is no need to do it in IDPA. It does not take any more effort to keep it IDPA, just the will to do so. But YMMVAPD, Ken Reed
+-+ E-Mail: freeidaho at yahoo dot com ...............................There is a $5 fine for whining. (Chris Ledoux "5 dollar
fine")
|--\ .................................................................................................You are what you do, everything else is just talk. |---| Personal web site to display ideas:................................Gaming is an admission that you can't win on a level playing field. /----\ <http://www.parmarng.org/freeidaho/default.html> |*----/\ |-------| My rifle, pistol, shotgun, and IDPA club: +------+ <http://www.parmarng.org> |
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 140 (11/29/08 17:58:18) |
Agreed on the curious looking targets. They are beyond the scope of what we should see.
PS: If they want to do visual things to the target to force the shooter to find COM without looking for the rings, they should throw t-shirts on them or camo them up (like gunsite targets).
Last Edited By: RobMoore
11/30/08 09:28:50.
Edited 1 times.
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Steve Koski |
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Posts: 293 (11/30/08 00:31:36) |
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freeidaho wrote:
