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 Taildraggerdave |
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Posts: 43 (09/07/08 19:11:46) |
I can't copy and paste out of an Adobe pdf but if you look at the Glossary in the IDPA rulebook under "Revolver Neutral" it talks about not
having to retain empty cases. I went through the entire rulebook looking for that info because I knew it was there. Finally found it in the very back.
Take care, Dave
__________________
The 1911 is truly the Harley-Davidson of the gun world. They require more attention, more maintenance, more trips to the shop for repair, and require you to be more proficient in order to function at its best. But they are the most beautiful, and once running properly will be the most impressive you can own.
Last Edited By: Taildraggerdave
09/07/08 19:15:04.
Edited 1 times.
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Gregg Kratochvil |
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Posts: 186 (09/07/08 20:38:28) |
Dave
Here is the copy and paste from the rule book glossary page 80, not sure way you are unable to copy and paste. Revolver Neutral: A descriptive term for a CoF which does not call for revolver shooters to do impossible things. This does NOT mean that every CoF should require six (6) rounds or less. This does mean that, if a CoF requires a tactical reload, the tactical reload will be called for before six (6) rounds have been expended. You cannot ask a person with an empty gun to retain unexpended rounds. Think of revolvers when designating cover, reloads and stage requirements. |
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Taildraggerdave |
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Posts: 44 (09/07/08 22:36:26) |
I imagine it's because my computer is messed up. Am able to copy and paste everything else....
Thanks for doing it though. Take care, Dave
__________________
The 1911 is truly the Harley-Davidson of the gun world. They require more attention, more maintenance, more trips to the shop for repair, and require you to be more proficient in order to function at its best. But they are the most beautiful, and once running properly will be the most impressive you can own. |
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Radome |
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Posts: 69 (09/08/08 12:01:02) |
The wheel gunners are a dis-advantaged bunch aren't they?
I say that as a joke because we have a master who out shoots everyone with a revlover. As an SO, unless someone told me otherwise (I am standing by) , I'd be happy just to see the shooter not dump the speed loader on the ground and replace it in a pocket. Empties do not belong in pockets. This is a well documented issue from the early days of combat handguns and is addressed in 'Revolver Neutral'. I am,,, RICK |
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robertbank.czechpistols82792 |
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Posts: 82 (09/12/08 20:08:50) |
With a revolver IF all six cartridges are now empty, as is the gun, there would be no reason or provision to retain the empties as this would be inconsistent
with a pistol's emergency reload.
That said read the Note on page 42 of the rule book. "HQ urges course designers to draft scenario courses that do not require tac-loads ore reloads with retention to be performed 'on the clock'". What is interesting is that in all three descriptions of the Approved IDPA reloads the word cylinder does not appear once. The word cylinder only appears in the Note in the Emergency Reload section describing when a reload may take place. I would take that to mean unless you have a round left in the cylinder you can dump your empties on the ground. There is no part of the Qualifier that would leave you with anything but an empty revolver, requiring you to do a reload with retention. Take Care Bob
qui desiderat pacem, praeparat bellum
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stretch64 |
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Posts: 8 (09/12/08 21:40:06) |
robertbank wrote:This is the opinion I disagree with. (No offense, Bob). The argument for it has been Revolver Neutral states "You cannot ask a person with an empty gun to retain unexpended rounds". If there are unexpended rounds in the cylinder, the gun's not empty. Robert |
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robertbank.czechpistols82792 |
stretch64 | ||
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Posts: 84 (09/12/08 21:53:32) |
Thought that is what I said. If your revolver is empty dump them on the ground. If it is not you must retain the unfired rds.
No offense taken. If there are rounds remaining in the cylinder and the shooter chooses to do a reload the unexpended rounds would have to be retained. By making the stage revolver neutral the designer would not have the revolver shooter having to do a reload with retention (ie rds in gun but not enough to complete the next part of the stage before reaching cover). eg. Shoot two targets with two rds each behind baricade them shoot three targets with two rds each while moving to position B. A stage like that would force the revolver shooter to do a reload with retention of two rds. Take Care Bob
qui desiderat pacem, praeparat bellum
Last Edited By: robertbank
09/12/08 21:58:32.
Edited 1 times.
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stretch64 |
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Posts: 9 (09/12/08 22:10:18) |
Right, I think we're on the same page. The question was what about the empties when the gun is not empty.
We all seem to agree they do not need to be retained. The phrasing I highlighted in your response is what I've been told by SOs that want me to retain the
empties.
Robert |
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COF |
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Posts: 435 (09/13/08 07:33:01) |
Plain and simple, empties do not have to be retained, loaded rounds do.
Jerry Mosher On 2nd decade of IDPA On 4th decade of Wheelgunning
youth and skill are no match for old age and treachery
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Bones |
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Posts: 328 (09/18/08 10:03:29) |
...another question Jerry : Curt is round. If he gets loaded, do I have to keep him? See you in a few weeks, Craig
This whole semi-auto thing is just a fad...
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SauconValleyShooter |
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Posts: 234 (09/18/08 10:53:58) |
Good Morning,
I used to drop the whole mess into my pocket for the tac reload, but because of this thread, I tried something different at the last match we had at Phillispburg. I had two occasions to tac reload, one was a no light stage. I opened the cylinder, and let whatever wanted to come out, drop. Each time the two unfired rounds and one empty case fell into my hand. As I ejected the remaining empties, I dropped the two rounds and one empty into my pocket and then went on with the reload. It worked so well that the peanut gallery was clamouring for a procedural call against me for they thought I just dumped everything on the floor. Ken |
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Blair Wakeham |
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Posts: 49 (09/19/08 10:51:48) |
"...another question Jerry : Curt is round. If he gets loaded, do I have to keep him? See you in a few weeks, Craig" Craig, I believe you can dump him on the ground so long as you don't leave that location. If you want to leave you have to stow him safely prior to departure, then you may again dump him at the end of the night. 
B
Dec. 15, 1791
There are people with opinions and people with experience. Smile at one, listen to the other. |
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COF |
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Posts: 438 (09/19/08 11:40:55) |
If you want to keep a loaded Curt around, that's your problem. That's a whole lot worse than a loaded gun - you can put the loaded gun in a holster, in
a closet, wherever you want and it won't make any noise until you pull the trigger. A loaded Curt goes off all the time... and I'm not even going to
got there about pulling his trigger
Jerry
youth and skill are no match for old age and treachery
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frank |
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Posts: 114 (09/23/08 20:08:33) |
During the Alabama State match the COF design made it necessary for me to RWR before engaging some droppers. I had three loaded and three empties in my 686. I
dumped the whole cylinder load into my hand, transferred to my vest pocket and reloaded and proceeded on to finish the stage.
I was pretty proud of myself until the SO walked me back to my reloading point and there was one of my live rounds on the ground. I know it was mine but I have no idea how it got there. I either missed my hand or missed my pocket. I deserved and got the PE.
Inside Every Old Man is a Kid saying "What the Heck Happened...."
Frank |
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SauconValleyShooter |
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Posts: 238 (09/29/08 22:59:14) |
Good Evening,
Frank, when I was keeping everything (empties and loaded cartridges) I would cup my hand to my chest and make a pocket to catch everything coming from the cylinder. It worked pretty well. Ken |
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FieldShunt |
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Posts: 1 (11/25/08 13:36:29) |
This is rough for sixgunners who reload with the weak hand while maintaining the grip on the gun with the shooting hand. Fortunately, most course designers seem to make the break point at six for simplicity's sake. Bill |
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Gregg Kratochvil |
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Posts: 240 (11/25/08 14:24:21) |
FieldShunt wrote:A good reason to practice switch hand reloading just for such an occasion. 
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