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sctman800a |
Holster modification |
Lead | |
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I have read the rule book and I don't see a problem with what I want to do, just thought I would ask anyway. I have a pancake holster with a thumb
break that even without the snap has excelent retention, I am thinking about trimming the snap off to make it into an open top. Does anyone see any problems?
Thanks, Jim.
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Steve Koski |
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Yep, you can do that. Cut it off!
Koski |
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j ted murphy |
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I did on mine.
Ted
Cover Me, I'm going Slo-Mo!
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gmancdp |
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did you guys take the male part of the retainer off of the holster also??? a SO this weekend told a shooter,the male part had to be removed also..just
wondering..
Gerg |
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Steve Koski |
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I think your SO is up in the night.
Koski |
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frank |
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It isn't necessary to remove the male part but if it is a leather holster and you have cut off the one part you might as well cut off the other just to
avoid situations with SO as you described.
Inside Every Old Man is a Kid saying "What the Heck Happened...."
Frank |
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j ted murphy |
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I left the part on mine, and it did cause a minor stir at a recent major match.
Cover Me, I'm going Slo-Mo!
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DrHenley |
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I am new to IDPA, and shot my first match yesterday. I chose IDPA because I thought it was designed to allow competition with the equipment you actually carry
as opposed to IPSC where it has become an equipment race.
Can someone point me to the place in the rule book that requires a holster be snapped? I have read and re-read the rule book and I can't find it. If there is a retention lock in addition to the snap, does it have to be engaged? I was told to snap my holster, but no mention of the retention lock. Was that because the SO didn't notice it? I don't mind unsnapping while drawing, because it is one fluid motion, but the retention lock requires a separate motion. Also, snapping the holster is awkward in Condition One, which leads to a lot of fumbling around while making ready. I like my holster, but it became readily apparent that it was not suitable for competition. I can get another one just like it and cut off the snaps, which will solve the problems. But now we are talking about getting competition specific equipment which to my mind violates the spirit of IDPA. |
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Steve Koski |
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Doc,
Good question. I know that the rule is commonly applied as it was in your case, that if a retention device is present, it must be used, even for non-LEO's. But the rule book doesn't say that (that I can find). It looks like Robert Ray at IDPA headquarters did make a clarification, as discussed here: http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/4115 Page 35 says: "L. Any type of filler to hide an offset. Exception - Police or military officers may use their duty rig, but ALL retention features of the holster MUST be used and all belt equipment (mace, handcuffs, etc.) must be present." But as you noted, that doesn't refer to non-LEO's. Koski |
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freeidaho |
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Sir Henley, Another way to look at this is that maybe you learned of a deficiency in your carry gear. If you are unwilling to take the time to deal with the holster during competition when nothing is really on the line, are you really going to want to take the extra time in a life saving situation? Maybe the original holster choice for concealed carry is the problem? Just asking.... You wouldn't be the first guy that changed his carry gear based on learnings from a gun game. Ken Reed |
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DrHenley |
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Koski, thanks for the response.
hmmm..."ALL retention features of the holster MUST be used" That must apply to everyone, otherwise there would be nothing else mandating that a holster be snapped. I assume that would mean I have to engage the retention lock too. I guess I'm going to have to get a competition holster... |
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RobMoore |
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Ken makes a very good point. If its slow in the game, its probably going to be slow in real life.
There are many "competition" enhancements or pieces of equipment that are very good for everyday carry. Why would you not want a setup that is fast to draw, acquire a sight picture with, and shoot with? The faster you can do those things in real life, the better off you will be. Try not to think of everything that makes you a better competitor as "competition equipment". The line between what is and isn't practical for carry can get blurry. For your specific scenario, many people carry guns without any retention devices other than the friction of the holster. Concealment is my retention device. |
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Steve Koski |
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Retention devices on concealment holsters are like seatbelts on a horse.
Koski |
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DrHenley |
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freeidaho wrote: Ken, thanks for the response, but I don't believe there is a deficiency in my carry gear. To begin with, the holster has adequate retention by itself.
The thumb break is rigid and prominent, and does not slow me down in drawing my gun.
It is, however, awkward to snap in Condition One. Under carry conditions, it is snapped at home at my leisure. In a match, it has to be snapped in front of a crowd as I'm making ready for a stage. Fumbling around with the snap while making ready is somewhat embarrassing. The biggest problem in competition is the retention lock, which locks the thumb break snap. ![]()
To disengage the retention lock, I have to reach over the thumb break and pull it up and back. This is a separate motion from drawing the gun. The purpose of the retention lock is to make it virtually impossible for an attacker to disarm me by taking my gun out of the holster from behind, and it is only appropriate for open carry. It is awkward to disengage by design. In 99.9% of carry situations it is not necessary. But for those 0.1% it's nice to know I have the option of using it if I want to. For my own carry purposes, I make the rules, and I decide whether or not to use the retention lock depending on the situation. Obviously in a situation where it appears that I may have to draw my gun, I will disengage the retention lock while evaluating the situation. I guess it is the same rationale behind carrying in the first place: It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it Jim Henley |
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Steve Koski |
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Jim,
If you like the holster, then just compete with it and use the retention devices. Who gives a damn what onlookers think. I'll also offer my .02 that you shouldn't carry the holster in different conditions (rentention devices sometimes used, sometimes not). You can guess why I'm sure. Do it the same way EVERY time. Koski |
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DrHenley |
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Thanks, I'll take that under advisement...
Jim Henley |
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NEPAKevin |
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FWIW, I have seen some very good competitors use the Safariland SLS system to little detriment in their times while using their LEO gear. If you decide to get
another holster, you might want to check them out as they are both effective at level 2/3 retention and can be quick to draw, assuming the shooter does his
part, and reholster. The model I have is a high ride that keeps the holster close to the body and is designed for concealment and I generally get draw times
well under two seconds with level 2 retention. HTH
Last Edited By: NEPAKevin
08/20/09 11:25:11.
Edited 1 times.
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j ted murphy |
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The SLS system is mighty nice. I want to get one for three gun, as I've nearly knocked handguns out of the holster with the rifle in that game.
The only reason I bought a revolver holster with a retention device is I am partial to the safariland high paddle, and have one for every one of my handguns. Safariland however, does not make a wheelgun model without the thumb break. So I cut the darn thing off. Ted
Cover Me, I'm going Slo-Mo!
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