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 stretch64 |
Revolver reload with retention |
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Posts: 2 (08/29/08 20:41:37) |
This question came up a few months ago at an SO certification course. When doing a TR/RWR with a revolver, is it necessary to retain the empty cases? The
rulebook doesn't really cover it for revolvers that I can see.
Robert
Last Edited By: stretch64 08/29/08 23:48:09.
Edited 1 time.
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J Rossy |
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Posts: 3 (08/29/08 22:22:09) |
AFAIK, no, it is not required. What would be the point of retaining empties? They are useless in a fight, unlike an empty magazine that can be refilled. The
only reason to do so is because it takes too much time to sort them out.
When I have to top off my pistol, I just dump everything in my hand and then into my pocket. Sweep up, grab another loader and stuff it in.
Jose
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nashvillebill |
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Posts: 2 (08/29/08 22:35:37) |
From the glossary of the rule book:
Revolver Neutral: A descriptive term for a CoF which does not call for revolver shooters to do impossible things. This does NOT mean that every CoF should require six (6) rounds or less. This does mean that, if a CoF requires a tactical reload, the tactical reload will be called for before six (6) rounds have been expended. You cannot ask a person with an empty gun to retain unexpended rounds. Think of revolvers when designating cover, reloads and stage requirements Bill |
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Steve Koski |
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Posts: 117 (08/29/08 22:54:50) |
So revolvers are exempt from tac loads/RWR only during the classifier?
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stretch64 |
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Posts: 3 (08/29/08 23:42:10) |
I'm referring to a reload with unfired cartridges still in the gun. I've been told both ways. Some say all cases must be retained, and others that only
the live rounds need to be retained. Personally, I don't see the point of mixing live rounds and empty cases in a pocket that I may have to go to later in
a CoF. I was wondering if their is a ruling one way or the other, or is it up to the MD.
Sorry, forgot to sign my post. Robert
Last Edited By: stretch64
08/29/08 23:47:39.
Edited 1 times.
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Steve Koski |
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Posts: 118 (08/30/08 00:32:18) |
Stretch,
Keep the live ammo, and the empties if you feel like it. It's usually faster to keep everything, which is why you see many shooters do that. Koski |
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Jim Watson |
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Posts: 444 (08/30/08 06:02:48) |
There is no rule or requirement to save empties from a revolver tac load.
That goes back to the old rule book, the suggestion for a revolver tac -load being "just dump the whole mess in a pocket." Ever have a stage that required you to use ammo left over from a tac load? I have, and if doing it with a revolver, you do NOT want to have a mix of live and empties in your pocket. Learn to do it right. |
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J Rossy |
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Posts: 4 (08/30/08 06:49:30) |
Steve Koski wrote:I don't think so. I do not think it is legal to dump live cartridges on the ground and leave them there during a revolver RWR/TR. At least that's not how I do it, but I could be doing it wrong.
Jose
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stretch64 |
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Posts: 4 (08/30/08 11:31:29) |
Jim Watson wrote: Exactly my point. I don't want to have to argue a PE with the SO when my empties hit the ground, so I was wondering if there has ever been any official clarification on this. Robert |
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J Rossy |
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Posts: 6 (08/30/08 12:04:49) |
Why would dumping EMPTY cartridge cases on the deck be grounds for any penalty of any sort?
Jose
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stretch64 |
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Posts: 6 (08/30/08 12:11:53) |
J Rossy wrote:It shouldn't, but some SOs disagree. Robert |
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Jim Watson |
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Posts: 445 (08/30/08 15:38:12) |
Then they are wrong. There is no requirement to retain empties at any time.
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Matt M |
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Posts: 59 (08/30/08 16:14:08) |
I just keep the whole moonie
Matt McArthur
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J Rossy |
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Posts: 7 (08/30/08 22:19:14) |
Jim Watson wrote:+1 I just read the entire rulebook section on approved reloads and could not find anything to support a PE for dumping empty cartridge cases out of a revolver. The whole argument is illogical on its face, once one understands the philosophy behind IDPA.
Jose
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RobMoore |
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Posts: 73 (08/31/08 21:39:14) |
No requirement for retaining empties, but aren't you giving yourself a penalty in a round-about way (no pun intended wheelgunners) by discriminating
between live and spent casings when you dump them into your hand? I would think you'd just grab the lot of it, shove it in a pocket, get a fresh 6 in
there, and continue on.
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Jim Watson |
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Posts: 446 (08/31/08 22:22:14) |
That was actually recommended in earlier versions of the rule book. I think that is what amounts to discrimination, or better, disrespect of revolver shooters.
What do you do if you need the few live rounds you pocketed along with the empty brass? True, stages like that are extremely uncommon, so few people learn to do a real revolver tac load. Usually a tac load is called for after six shots, when the revolver is empty anyhow. |
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Gunrunner |
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Posts: 74 (08/31/08 22:32:56) |
If the revolver is empty then it is an emergency reload and you load as normal, At least that is what I have been told but if there are unfired rounds you must
retain them.
I look for places to do a tac-load with my 625( just toss the partial in your holster) as SOs look at you really strangely. But this chance doesn't come along very often. I really confused a couple of guys at Badlands this year.
Wayne Ritchie
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stretch64 |
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Posts: 7 (08/31/08 23:03:11) |
I let gravity drop the unfired rounds into my hand before I kick the empties. It is a bit slower than grabbing the whole mess, but it seemed the right thing to
do. Being fairly new to the revolver divisions, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking any rules as I'd been told I might. Thanks for all the
replies.
Robert |
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RePete |
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Posts: 147 (09/01/08 08:56:51) |
As a revolver shooter, my take is that only the live rounds have to be kept.
That being said, I pocket the empties too, when I'm shooting SSR, for speed. But when I'm shhoting ESR, I have no choice - moonclips.
Stercus Accidit -Sh*t happens (Latin)
Proud member of the WTFDTSG club Nice try means you suck spelled different |
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Jim Watson |
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Posts: 447 (09/01/08 08:57:55) |
I let gravity drop the unfired rounds into my hand before I kick the empties. That is what I did when shooting a lot of SSR. Lets you save the loaded rounds and eject the empties. Not terribly slow and definitely constitutes Doing Right versus "dumping the whole mess in a pocket." |
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Rick |
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Posts: 1 (09/01/08 11:41:02) |
I performed two RWR in yesterday's match. The first to avoid reloading in inconvenient places and the other because the stage required movement after
engaging a disappearing target and it was gone with one round left and a lot of ground to cover so I RWR and moved on. Incidently I let one empty slip through
my fingers, I left it behind. No penalty.
Rick |
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