Lcputter1 wrote:Very good suggestion.
I think seperating the safe table from the stage and only allowing it to be used as a safe table instead of a countertop, would help .
I for one, will make sure any match I am working does just that.
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Mathew NJ |
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Lcputter1 wrote:Very good suggestion. I for one, will make sure any match I am working does just that. Please don't tell my mother
I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano in a
whorehouse.
Last Edited By: Mathew NJ
04/24/08 06:35:41.
Edited 1 times.
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Jim Norman |
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The safe tables at this match had large signs in the shape of a target, Painted white and labeled very clearly, "SAFE TABLE" with the International
NO symbol over the word AMMO.
Pretty clear message. NO AMMO. Jim |
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Josh Lentz |
NJ States | ||
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I wanted to thank all the people involved in the match it ran very smooth and the stages where great too
thanks Josh Lentz |
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loomis1266 |
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Josh,
I had the opportunity watchin' you shoot in my pit! It was cool... Keep it up dude. Rich |
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Lcputter1 |
Safe table, here we go.. | ||
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"SAFE TABLE" with the International NO symbol over the word AMMO. "Pretty clear message. NO AMMO."
Mr. Norman, You are correct, but I don't think how the table was marked was ever disputed. I said I didn't realize it was a "safe table" until after I was dinged for the DQ. When I wrote I think seperating the safe table from the stage and only allowing it to be used as a safe table instead of a countertop, would help. I was just making a suggestion, regarding the proximity of the "Safe Table" to the stage and where the squads standing by are waiting. As well as what else the "Safe Table" is allowed to be used for. Once shooters start eating lunch on it and leaving numerous other items on top of the table, I think we're getting away from the idea of what the table is actually designated for. As for the "Pretty clear message" part of your post, that is the only reason I'm responding today. When explaining why you wanted me DQ'd, each of the SO's gave a completely different explanantion and each of the explanations contradicted oneanother. (i.e. If you didn't take rounds out of the box , its not a DQ - If the box is closed , its not a DQ - If your weren't loading mags at the table, its not a DQ - I was told you, It's a two step process, setting rounds on the table and then doing something with them.) Its the various explanations and your broad interpretation of a Club Rule, not an IDPA Rule that I disagreed with. Also the most troubling thing for me, was that a member of my squad was told by the Match Director that if it happened on any other stage I would have gotten a warning and/or a procedural and not been DQ'd. He was told that it was a DQ because of you and your affiliation with the club. Thats a pretty mixed message. If its a DQ with one set of SO's it should be a DQ across the board with all SO's. I've seen nothing stating that what I did was an automatic DQ. Again, I have a great deal more that I'm not including, but I don't think its going to lend its self to a constructive exchange in this forum. The bottom line should be ammo in or around the "Safe Table" is a DQ if thats the rule?. Whether its, shooters with fully loaded mags on their person handling a weapon at the table, Range bags with loaded mags in it on the table or shooters sitting on the table eating lunch with rounds on there person should be a DQ if thats the rule. Which SO is in the bay shouldn't matter. I also don't believe setting a partial box of ammo with 10 Rounds in it on the edge of the "Safe Table" is in the same league of infractions as breaking the 180 with a loaded weapon, an AD or dropping your loaded weapon on the ground. I did it, you got me, I can ensure you that I have grown emeasurably from the experience and hope that it never happens again. I think each of the SO's involved knows exactly what I'm talking about. Mr. Norman, thanks again for being an SO at the match and volunteering your time. Without all the help from the SO's, these matches wouldn't be able to take place. I really do appreciate the efforts of all the SO's at the match, Thanks. Jimbob Meyers |
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GTHREEFOUR |
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JimBob
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OBDOGS |
Safe Table | ||
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Enough Already….The way this is going on and on, this must be the first DQ ever given at a State Match. I thought it would right to be quiet and let it just play out, but with every post, something else changes which dilutes the issue. Jim with the finger pointing and professing how you have been wronged, I can't believe it's you writing. We all get that you are a victim, and as you say, "we wanted to DQ you". This could not be further from the truth. As for the location of The Safe Tables at NJ State, they were in the same location as the Nats. One in every pit where it could fit. Enough with the discussion about mixed messages and this SO said this, and that SO said that. This is IDPA and as with a lot of issues, the safe table is a gray area. We have SO's volunteering from all shooting disciplines and all these disciplines have strict rules regarding a safe area. Unfortunately IDPA does not cover all the safety issues and infractions that can arise at a match in the rules. And MD's need to make decisions to protect everyone on the range. Here is how my decision was made….. You were at a clearly marked Safe Table with open ammunition, loading magazines. All unsafe issues are dealt with by disqualification from match. The DQ's listed in S1 in the rule book are in detail except for the Safe Table. It states "a designated area to handle unloaded guns. NO AMMUNITION can be handled in a safe area." I feel strongly about safety, I believe all safety infractions carry in same penalty, a match DQ. Even in an area that can't always be monitored by an SO like the Safe Table and parking lot. We as MD's and SO's need to trust that competitors know better. Some do and so don't. And those that get caught in New Jersey will go home. So other than that Mrs. Lincoln, How did you like the show? Steve Sherman Co. MD NJ State IDPA Match
Last Edited By: OBDOGS
04/25/08 20:36:43.
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Peter R |
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GTHREEFOUR wrote:
Vic am really sorry that you feel that way but I totally disagree with your statement that he would have gotten away with it in another pit. I SO'd the
match (Stage one) and would have called John or Steve over to DQ a shooter if I saw one handling live ammo at a safe table. Knowing several other SO's that
worked the match pretty well that they would not have hesitated either. No SO takes any joy in sending a shooter home. In fact is sucks. I have done it before
and as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow I'll do it again eventually. The idea that an SO is looking to bag anyone over a safety issue is nonsense. The
potential finality of a mistake in our sport should be more than enough cause for any shooter to be totally intolerant of any unsafe action no matter how
minor.
The fact that you never felt threatened is totally irrelevant. No one is claiming what Jim did was overly reckless or dangerous. He violated a safety rule and was sent home, as would any shooter (hopefully) regardless of the SO. The simple fact of the matter is, the issue of ammo at the safe tables was covered in the match briefing, it was in the match booklet every shooter was given and every safe table had a fairly large and obvious sign that said NO AMMO. I don't think it could have been made clearer to the contestants that handling of ammo in the safe areas was a no go. The fact that is even an issue is puzzling considering the lengths that John and Steve went through to make it perfectly clear to ever shooter before the match even began.
Last Edited By: Peter R
04/25/08 18:01:31.
Edited 1 times.
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Lcputter1 |
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"Jim with the finger pointing and professing how you have been wronged, I can't believe it's you writing. We all get that you are a
victim, and as you say, "we wanted to DQ you".
DQ being essentially a "Two-Step" process.
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Blair Wakeham |
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It's disappointing to see the comments on the match heading the way it is. I thought that the match was great and really enjoyed it. I also have been
shooting IDPA for less than a year and have at every match I've been to been told where the safe table is and that no ammo is allowed at it. It's a
safety thing. We play with loaded guns. I would think that we have to be extra vigilant to protect ourselves and those around us. It seems like every
"AD" that I've every read or heard about involves a lapse in concentration or judgment. I'm sorry that someone was DQ'd. Maybe I'm
a hard ass but I don't think there should be much wiggle room regarding this. The risks just don't outweigh the benefits, to me.
B |
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j ted murphy |
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Cover Me, I'm going Slo-Mo!
Last Edited By: j ted murphy
04/26/08 05:39:23.
Edited 3 times.
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j ted murphy |
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Does anyone have copies of the stages I can take a look at? I did not make it to the match but would like to see what I missed as I heard a lot of good
about it at the last 2 local matches I shot.
Cover Me, I'm going Slo-Mo!
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mikegot38 |
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Ted:
I will bring the match book with me to Guthsville on Sunday. Mike Gottlieb |
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freeidaho |
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Is there any way to see them online, now my interest is piqued too!
Thanks! ! ! Ken Reed
+-+ E-Mail: freeidaho at yahoo dot com
|--\ |---| Personal web site to display ideas: /----\ <http://www.parmarng.org/freeidaho/default.html> |*----/\ |Idaho-| My rifle, pistol, shotgun, and IDPA club: +------+ <http://www.parmarng.org> |
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SixShooterPerry |
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If you would like to see a video of stages you can find it here.............
http//www.runandgunchallenge.com/video/Perry%20NJ%20State%20IDPA.wmv This is the video I use to evaluate my performance and find what needs practice. Stage 10 killed me as I had a Brain F*#t. Stage 12 is missing but you can see the other 11. I had a great time and will be back again next year. I have mixed emotions on the DQ but I can understand why it was given. In USPSA the call would have went the same way. Perry |
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