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Jun 2 17 2:37 PM
JayKelley wrote:Jack, your disagreement is with Robert Ray. He says once you have crossed the opening you have earned the penalty.
Back to the mock up. Stand with both feet behind the perpendicular FL coming from the right edge of the door frame, twist around the frame to shoot at 2 targets hard to the right. It is such a hard shot that right handed shooters might be tempted to do it weak hand only.
Now, stand with right foot behind the line but the left foot in the door opening PAST the frame. You now have a straight on two handed shot with no twist or lean required. Just before you press the shoot you lift the left foot slightly. You can certainly double tap from that position before balance is lost. Put foot down as you transition to the second target and repeat. Significant competitive advantage by subverting the rule concerning shooting from cover.
Is it as bad as I just portrayed? Have to see it to judge but the potential is there.
Jun 2 17 3:49 PM
Jun 2 17 4:00 PM
This is too fun. Good Job Nick.
Back to my last question: Does an AC's ruling only count within the confines of his domain?
Falling with a loaded gun isn't a big deal as long as you have good muzzle & finger control. At the 2016 Masters, Doug Jones and I both fell in the gravel somewhere around bay 5/6. He bled a LOT more than I, but he fell in cover and finished the stage from a modified prone. I fell a step later (along the path to the last FP), bled less (he had cleared some of the gravel I guess) , but got a PE 'cause I fell out of cover and finished the stage (crossed "the line" and fired several shots). But it would have taken much more than 3 sec to crawl back to cover. Life is a series of choices.
Jun 2 17 4:21 PM
JayKelley wrote:" its difficult to determine definitively when the competitor has put that one toe into the next shooting POC. It's easy to determine when the competitor breaks a shot at the COF."
I catch your drift, but most likely the situation will be such that there is no PoC shooting position on the other side of the opening. The targets you would be engaging from there would have to have been shoot from the first position before you crossed over so there is no reason for a defined shooting position, unless the stage was such that you could approach the opening from either side. Most likely the shooter catches their mistake after a step or two and retreats or blows by the edge of the next wall.
Jun 2 17 4:26 PM
Howard B wrote:. . .Back to my last question: Does an AC's ruling only count within the confines of his domain?. . .
. . .
Jun 2 17 4:52 PM
Jun 2 17 5:29 PM
Jun 3 17 5:06 PM
buzzdraw wrote:Howard B wrote:. . .Back to my last question: Does an AC's ruling only count within the confines of his domain?. . .Well I guess we don't know for sure. Certainly they hold for at least to the geographic area of the AC's responsibility.I'm waiting for that official IDPA website with a set of rulings/rules interpretations from the AC Rules committee or whoever gets charged with the task. I don't think the job is going to be that daunting as much of 2017 Rulebook is cut and dried.
Jun 3 17 5:12 PM
okw wrote:On this FTDR subject, I think you guys are missing one important factor. There is no possible way someone could lift their foot up before every shot taken and gain a "competitive advantage." Just imagine how long it would take to do that! Even a slow split time for doubles would be something like .30 seconds. Transitions aren't much slower than that. Can you raise and lower your foot that fast? And still make an accurate shot?
Let the shooter do it and laugh at it when they're done.
Jun 3 17 5:30 PM
Jun 3 17 7:39 PM
Jun 9 17 8:17 AM
Jun 9 17 8:39 AM
Jun 9 17 10:41 AM
Jun 9 17 11:27 AM
okw wrote:And there you have another excellent example of "tribal rules."
These AC clarifications have got to be located centrally for everybody to see.
Jun 9 17 7:32 PM
JayKelley wrote:Bob, as I said above, the "potential" is there. I'd have to see it to make a call. There are two specific rules that weigh on my mind concerning this.
1.2.2 Participation Principles
A. Competitors will not attempt to circumvent or compromise any stage by the use of inappropriate devices, equipment, or techniques.
5.3.2 The FTDR is intended to be used solely as a penalty for acts on the part of the shooter to circumvent or violate the rules and by doing so gain a competitive advantage.
Someone that intentionally and repeatedly takes an illegal shooting position and then slightly lifts their foot to make it legal for just the shot seems to be using an inappropriate technique to circumvent the rules. Cover is to be used if available and legal use of cover is with both feet on or behind the physical fault line.
If someone takes a single shot this way because they over ran the position and lifted a foot to make it legal, no problem. Intentionally and repeatedly using this as a technique to circumvent the rules, potential problem.
I am just an old fat guy, but I have always had exceptional footwork. When IPSIC (yes it was still that when I started) had shooting boxes I would many times get my last shot off moving through a shooting box (they had those then) with my foot an inch off the ground. This was legal just like it is now in IDPA.
As to techniques to gain a competitive advantage, we do that all the time in IDPA. Coming into a position with the gun already up, performing a tac load while moving, shooting extra rounds to get a slide lock reload. Follow the rules, not projecting intent or advantage to the competitor. Currently they have opened the door for doing these types of shots (maybe rarely) but it is wide open IMO. Apply the letter of the rules, that is what they are there for. If not it will be called many different ways and that does not benefit the program or the competitor.
A01124It's all about specifics Bobhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paYATcBrjEQ&feature=player_embedded
Jun 9 17 8:39 PM
Jun 9 17 9:34 PM
Jun 10 17 2:15 AM
JayKelley wrote:Perhaps we should just call it USPSA and call it quits.
Jun 10 17 11:24 AM
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