Requirements for Law Enforcement

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (humphreys19) — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:26:05 GMT

I am very happy to have any LEO shoot any match I am in, as long as they follow the same rule book I do. They have to use the retention devices on their holsters and have their every day duty gear on their belt. I don't see this being any advantage over anyone using good modern concealment equipment.

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Radome) — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:30:24 GMT

Couple of thoughts.

First, Military Police have the power of arrest over any person of the armed forces of their service regardless of where thay may be. They always do that in concert with state and local assistance. They are not less of an LE body under any circumstances. This is the same for Campus cops and Casino/ Indian Police agencies.

Second, IDPA gives a venue to those few officers who go beyond the minimum training to try out their gear in more challenging...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Jose Rossy) — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:34:20 GMT

Steve Koski wrote:
I was under the impression that a cop could use regular IDPA holsters, mag pouches, concealment, etc. if he wanted. The LEO option allows him to compete with duty gear, if he wants, which otherwise might violate holster rules.

At least that's how it is done around here.

Koski

I believe you are correct

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Jim Watson) — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:27:13 GMT

I have entertained that thought occasionally, but always go back to the position that we have too few cops in the shooting sports as it is and am willing to give them the opportunity to work out of their duty rig. It generally does put them at a competitive disadvantage but if that bothers them, they can shift to off duty concealed carry. The place I will be shooting Saturday has been encouraging the local PD and has been getting pretty good attendance. They seem to think it is fun and is...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Steve Koski) — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:26:50 GMT

I was under the impression that a cop could use regular IDPA holsters, mag pouches, concealment, etc. if he wanted. The LEO option allows him to compete with duty gear, if he wants, which otherwise might violate holster rules.

At least that's how it is done around here.

Koski

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Scuba Simpleton) — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:57:38 GMT

This is one of those IDPA rules that just doesn't connect with reality.

I have never understood why there are different rules for LEO and military. I have seen this rule/loop hole abused at local and major matches. There is really no need to debate the finer points of the rule. The general principle of the sport should control.

We are discussing the International Defensive Pistol Association. Not the International Police Pistol Association. Not the International...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Jose Rossy) — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:14:48 GMT

Ken, I will defer to peace officers on this. Whatever they feel comfortable with goes.

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (freeidaho) — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:11:50 GMT

Jose Rossy wrote:
If a guys shows me an ID that proves he is a sworn member of any city, county, state, tribal, military, or federal law enforcement agency, or an equivalent from any nation friendly to the United States; he is a cop, gets to shoot as a cop, and can shoot using as much of his duty gear as he likes or can shoot from concealment, his or her choice.

It really should not be more difficult than that....

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Steve Koski) — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:57:49 GMT

Sounds pretty easy to me.

Koski

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Jose Rossy) — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:31:04 GMT

If a guys shows me an ID that proves he is a sworn member of any city, county, state, tribal, military, or federal law enforcement agency, or an equivalent from any nation friendly to the United States; he is a cop, gets to shoot as a cop, and can shoot using as much of his duty gear as he likes or can shoot from concealment, his or her choice.

It really should not be more difficult than that.

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (freeidaho) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:34:27 GMT

Bob Hostetter wrote:
Ken,

Keep in mind what Robert said in his post....

"should be based on power to arrest, either federal or state".

You realize that this excludes Military Police because they have no power of arrest beyond the perimeter of their military base. They have almost exactly the same powers that tribal 'depts of public safety' have and it is given to...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Bob Hostetter) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:33:05 GMT

Ken,

Keep in mind what Robert said in his post....

"should be based on power to arrest, either federal or state".

You realize that this excludes Military Police because they have no power of arrest beyond the perimeter of their military base. They have almost exactly the same powers that tribal 'depts of public safety' have and it is given to both of them by federal stature. Also this would exclude any foreign police officers as well.

...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (CChristian) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:43:09 GMT

Ken,
I think, sometimes, when strict adherence to the rules is being discussed, that we often forget that the shooter at their first match (they're not required to be IDPA members at that one and couldn't be expected to understand the Rule Book, let alone actually have one) is just there to learn. I see the thought " rules are rules", and can agree with it to a point. What I feel has to be included in that is that new shooters aren't quite included (except......

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (freeidaho) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:14:26 GMT

Chris,
Excellent reply. But RobertB's reply didn't say anything about new shooters, nor did mine. But if they had, your reply would be right on! Maybe I should have said "like.... always.... (except new shooters).

Ken Reed

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (CChristian) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:03:59 GMT

I don't think there is a MD or SO that hasn't overlooked an equipment rule for a new shooter, while educating them as to what they need next time. Very often, at least in my CSO experience, that is what brings a shooter back instead of embarrassing them to the extent that they never come back... and bad mouth IDPA to anyone who will lsten.
Given that this thread was about LEOs and duty gear, I don't think Robert Banks observations were out of line at all. LEOs have a certain...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (freeidaho) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 14:28:41 GMT

robertbank wrote:
Personally I would have no objections if the officer came with his duty belt, duty mag holders and duty holster along with his duty gun. Most of the rigs I hvae seen are not conducive to shooting IDPA at a very high level anyway. That said I agree with Jim Watson some are very good using their duty rigs but it does take talent to go fast. I just like to see them out shooting and enjoying themselves. It breaks...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (CChristian) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 14:27:50 GMT

Just a thought... but the more LEOs shooting IDPA the better. In the event that a civilian IDPA member is ever involved in a self-defense shooting, a politically motivated prosecuting attorney might attempt to make an "issue" of the fact that the IDPA member regularly "participated in combat pistol games". ... the inference to the jury being that the IDPA member was some kind of militia wacko who was actively training to shoot someone.
If you can call a couple of...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (robertbank) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:51:41 GMT

Personally I would have no objections if the officer came with his duty belt, duty mag holders and duty holster along with his duty gun. Most of the rigs I hvae seen are not conducive to shooting IDPA at a very high level anyway. That said I agree with Jim Watson some are very good using their duty rigs but it does take talent to go fast. I just like to see them out shooting and enjoying themselves. It breaks down barriers both ways. I am not sure, how insisting an officer have cuff...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (gmancdp) — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:34:57 GMT

we have a local Fed/Ranger[John Hearn] for the Natchez Trace that shoots in full gear/uniform and all ,and does a good job of whooopen up on most of us,every month..Sometimes he will shoot the all steel match at another club in full gear with good results also..Some of the locals,small town/counties police/sherriffs,the Md will let them shoot as they dress,which means usually jeans,a duty belt,holster,duty mag holders and just 1 cuff case..point taken is that they want to get the LE's to...

Re: Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Howard B) — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:03:15 GMT

As far as the radio goes, my guess is there are many departments that still use pool radios rather than an item of equipment that the officer takes home every day. Most of the other stuff, to include Tasers, tend to be issued to the individual. And as others have pointed out, radios are pricey, especially the new digital system ones. It would be hard to explain damaging one at a pistol match. Howard

Requirements for Law Enforcement

feeds@yuku.com (Bob Hostetter) — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:59:26 GMT

What (or who?) qualifies as law enforcement? Only fulltime employed, sworn police officers? What about military police officers? Security Officers? Or how about Tribal Department of Public Safety officers?

There doesn't seem to be any guidelines as to who qualifies and who doesn't. Does a Tribal Dept of Public Safety Officer qualify to use their duty gear? What about Security Officers?

Before everyone tells me about how to handle it on the local level, I am more...